One time, I was dealing with a police officer (I was a witness) and they asked me for ID. I told them I wasn't carrying any, and they made me give them my wallet so that they could search it.
As it turns out, I was telling them the truth. I'd decided to stop carrying ID, after I'd been placed under arrest a week or two earlier..
But that's another story. (It's a good story of course, just like all my stories.. ;)
Oh, and another time, I had the shit beaten out of me, and the officer refused to take my wallet, when I asked him to get my ID out of. And this other time, I was threatened with arrest if I didn't hand over identification.
I'm such a difficult person to deal with. :D
John.
if actually been wondering myself lately, is it *actually* illegal in nsw to refuse to identify yourself to a police officer, especially when you are not under suspicion of having committed an offence??
I'm not sure. Police have told me before that they will arrest me if I don't identify myself..
Basically, in my experience of police, they just do and say whatever the fuck suits them.
I asked a cop once: "Are you allowed to lie to me?"
And he answered: "Well you can lie to me"
That was after he told me that he could arrest me if I didn't hand over ID.
Hi YYY,
Hope your "friend" is not in trouble (if its you, you better speak up - don't let a little thing like dignity get in the way =)).
The short answer, courtesy of me is:
No, its not illegal by law, but you should for practical reasons.
The long answer, courtesy of ZZZ is:
[80-1025] Inquiries prior to arrest The common law distinguishes two stages in interrogation by police prior to arrest: 1
(1) questioning prior to charging or deciding to lay a charge; and
(2) interrogation after a decision has been made to lay a charge or a charge has been laid.
At common law, during the first questioning stage, arrest is not involved and police may ask questions of any person whom they believe could be of assistance. However, the questioning creates no obligation on the person questioned to make any reply, even as to name and address. 2 In the Northern Territory, South Australia, Tasmania and Western Australia, police also have statutory powers to require the provision of the name and address of a person, even if a decision to charge has not yet been made. 3 Additionally, legislation in all jurisdictions allows police, even at this stage, to require some responsive action by a person in some circumstances, such as the provision of a name and address where a motor accident has occurred. 4 It is also possible for non-police officers to require answers to questions prior to arrest, for example:
(1) customs officers about the import or export of prohibited drugs; 5
(2) the Attorney-General about an unlawful association; 6
(3) the Minister or officers in relation to immigration matters; 7
(4) civil aviation investigators; 8 or
(5) authorised officers conducting inquiries relating to the operation of health services. 9
Regards,
XXX
-----Original Message-----
From: YYY
Sent: Thursday, 22 July 2004 1:53 PM
To: XXX
Subject: question
Heya XXX sorry to bother you, just a very small question I was talking about with a friend, I thought u may be able to answer for me:
Is it actually illegal in NSW to refuse to identify yourself to a police officer, especially when you are not under suspicion of having committed an offence??
Hey me,
Cool. Thanks.
Regardless of what the rules are, I've found that the cops treat you how they want, your ability to appeal to any form of recourse is a function of your socio-economic status.
I've decided that it's not a good idea for me to leave my house. I think that's what 'they' wanted me to decide anyway.
Police are actually allowed to search you if they place you under arrest. It is very easy for them to 'engineer' a basis for placing you under arrest.
In my case, I was 'arrested' for refusing to comply with a move on directive (I was arguing with them, asserting that I wasn't being a nusance and that I had the freedom to be in public space). I wasn't charged though, they just wanted to have an excuse to find out who I was so they could look in their database to see if they should be concerned about me (and to make a note in their database for the future).
After that, I ended up going to austli and reading about police powers, etc. Basically they can do what they want, they just have a few 'technical' hurdles to jump through.
They just play the cards how they want. They team up, and create this fake situation so they can justify their actions.
For example, I had an officer who I'd had no dealings with come over and yell at me for being a fuckwit when another team of officers turned up. He was just giving the other officers an excuse.
Another time I was talking to a cop and as I was speaking a tiny speck of spittle accidentally came from my lip and sprayed in his general direction. He then informed me that I had just assulted him. He went on to claim that he felt intimidate by me. We were both smiling at each other, it was so obviously a bullshit game that he was playing. I said "OK, so, you're standing there armed with various lethal and non-lethal weapons, in the company of two other officers similarly armed and you are intimidated by me? I haven't attempted to intimidate you in any way, nor have I given you any indication that I present any sort of a threat to you, anyone else, or any property" etc.
When they decide to arrest you they don't fuck around though. They grab you, and smash you against a wall. They sneak up on you too, they really spring it on you while you're not expecting it. Then while some of them are pinning your spread arms against the nearest wall, they grab your wallet out of your back pocket and go through it to see what's in there, then they take ID from it and go to their car and check out what their computer knows about you.
It's all pretty intimidating. The worst thing is knowing that if you wanted to, you could fight them, but that you'd end up in serious trouble if you did. I really would have loved to smash the fuckers that arrested me.
I had a freshly broken rib at the time too, and when they man-handled me, it really fucking hurt.
Anyway, my file in the NSW police database must be getting kind of large now. :/
I resolve to stay at home and program. 'In public' is a bad place for me to be. I don't behave the way that people expect me to, and they tend to find this threatening even though I'm the sincerest, most honest, well intentioned person that I know.
It's not my fault the rest of the world doesn't see things my way! :P
Love,
John.
I just thought I'd add, that I have dealt with more decent cops, than I've dealt with fuckwit cops.
I don't really have anything against the police. In general, I hold them in high regard.
Cops are usually awesome people.
John.